Mormon/Evangelical doctrinal discussions

One of my favorite authors and religious instructors, Robert  Millet and his Evangelical friends have been meeting twice a year for the last 12 years - amicably!  Read a summary of their interactions and dealings with doctrinal differences in this DesNews article.  A couple of excerpt follow.  It's very refreshing to see this kind of respect and comradarie which has led to greater understanding of each other.  Isn't that a pretty big part of being Christian  With this kind of misunderstanding again front and center due to the Mitt Romney/Jon Huntsman/Rick Parry (and cohorts) political volleying with the "religious test" for presidency and all, it's interesting to see what some of these religious leaders think and how they behave themselves.

There's still the big question:  Is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a Christian religion?  Who can claim to determine that a Mormon is not a Christian?  Presuming to make such a declaration seems pretty un-Biblical to me.    And, many members of "mainstream Christianity" believe you only need to declare yourself a believer to be such.  So why do we think we can judge someone else on this?  It's confusing to me.  But, I'm happy to see ongoing dialogue with the purpose of dispelling misunderstanding and encouraging moth sides of the issue to be respectful of the other and to accomplish good as the Good News is spread.  I've mentioned before some really good books that were written in greater depth about these discussion.  This attempt to understand is definitely a Christian activity. 

In an effort to clarify the church's Christianity, LDS officials issued a statement in which they quoted a Book of Mormon scripture: "We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins" (2 Nephi 25: 26). Their point in doing so, they said, was to illustrate that "Christ is at the center of our worship, study, service and faith, and we believe this is clearly demonstrated in the lives of more than 14 million members in over 130 countries around the globe."

There was a Christian Council (can't remember the name of it) which voted to exclude the LDS representatives who attended.  After their dismissal a Catholic leader stood and stated that it had been one of the most un-Christian acts he had ever witnessed.  The room was hushed.  I hope they were ashamed.   

Joel Osteen , senior pastor of Houston's Lakewood Church, often referred to as America's largest "mega church," said recently that he believes that Latter-day Saints are Christians."I do not know if it's the purest form of Christianity like I grew up with," he said, "but I know Mormons … and I hear Mitt Romney say, 'I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and I believe he's my Savior.' That's one of the core issues. I'm sure there are other issues we don't agree on, but I can say the Baptists and the Methodists and the Catholics don't agree on everything."

I appreciate that this article also emphasizes that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) also have the obligation to not misrepresent the beliefs of other faiths.  We could all become better Christians indeed.

Looks like a good read:  KJV Bible and the Restoration

R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

Respect denotes both a positive feeling of esteem for a person or other entity (such as a nation or a religion), and also specific actions and conduct representative of that esteem. - Wikipedia

If we are only concerned with whether or not others hear us, we will likely never hear what the others have to say.  I believe it is more important to listen than to be heard.  And if we listen, we might actually learn something, even if that person can't hear us.

“The best thing to give to your enemy is forgiveness; to an opponent, tolerance; to a friend, your heart; to your child, a good example; to a father, deference; to your mother, conduct that will make her proud of you; to yourself, respect; to all men, charity.” - Benjamin Franklin

“I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me... All I ask is that you respect me as a human being.” - Jackie Robinson

 

“To be one, to be united is a great thing. But to respect the right to be different is maybe even greater.” - Unknown

"You don't love someone for their looks, or their clothes, or for their fancy car, but because they sing a song only you can hear." -Helen Keller

 

A man has two ears and one mouth that he hear much and speak little. (German proverb)

"Blindness separates us from things but deafness separates us from people."  -Helen Keller

April

April is Sexual Violence Awareness Month

Sexual violence is almost always perpetrated by someone the victim knows. It is important for people in dating relationships to recognize the warning signs of dating and sexual violence.

Some of the warning signs of dating and sexual violence follow:

Victims

• Sudden changes in appearance
• Avoids contact with family and friends
• Lack of interest in things that used to make them happy
• Spends all of their free time with abuser
• Cries alot; moody
• Is very stressed with physical symptoms
• Sudden changes in behavior
• Defends abuser and his/her actions

Abusers

• Sudden and drastic mood swings
• Acts extremely macho or cocky much of the time
• Jealous and Controlling
• Cruelty to animals and/or children
• History of battering
• Constantly checking on partner
• Blames others for their problems
• Won’t take responsibilty for actions

If you or someone you know is in an abusive or dangerous relationship...
CALL 1.800.897.LINK (5465) A confidential Domestic Violence Information Line

In order to get a clear picture of the problem students experience with dating and sexual violence, the Violence and Injury Prevention Program reviewed data from the Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance Survey to compared dating and sexual violence.
During 2007, 12.6 percent of Utah students were hit, slapped, or physically hurt on purpose by their boyfriend or girlfriend during the 12 months before the survey.
In that same year, 11.9 percent of Utah students had been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to.

If your teen is in a violent relationship, most likey they are NOT going to come talk
to you about it. Be the one to start the conversation.

Are you in a healthy relationship? Typically this would consist of:

• Respect: being emotionally affirming and valuing the opinions of your partner. Respecting their feelings, friends/family, activities.

• Open Communication: talking openly and honestly about your thoughts, feelings, opinions; without fear of ridicule.

• Honesty and Accountability: accepting responsibility for self and admitting when you are wrong.

• Non-Threatening Behavior: talking and acting so that your partner feels safe and comfortable.

• Trust and Support: supporting each other’s goals in life.

• Shared Responsibility: mutually agreeing on a fair distribution of work. Making decisions together.

• Economic Partnership: making money decisions together and ensuring each partners benefits from financial arrangements.

For more information visit: www.health.utah.gov/vipp

Orson Scott Card responding to "Big Love"

He has a good perspective. If you want to read his complete article, click the post title. Here are a few items of interest:

When the Mormon prophet Wilford Woodruff declared in 1890 that it was God’s will that Latter-day Saints no longer take multiple wives, some Mormons clung to the “Principle of Plural Marriage” and rejected the authority of the president of the church.

This is akin to what happened when Protestants declared that they would no longer follow the pope, and polygamist sects are about as Mormon now as Baptists are Catholic.

The fastest way to get yourself excommunicated from the Mormon Church is to advocate plural marriage.
...
It’s offensive when believers in one religion hold up the sacred rites of another religion to public ridicule. So we’re hurt — but we’re not surprised.

Mormons have always been the exception to America’s policy of religious tolerance. Throughout our history in America, Mormons have been oppressed by government, killed or driven out by mobs, slandered, and libeled — always by fellow Americans who professed to believe in religious tolerance.

...Our primary work is helping people in and out of the church to live a more Christ-like life. Now and then, when a deep moral issue is involved, we get involved in political action. But when we do, we expect that others won’t like it, and we take our lumps.

It is not possible to grow as fast as this church is without encountering more and more detractors. Taking a firm stand on issues of moral concern, such as Proposition 8 also make us easy targets and it has been long-known we are one of the last remaining politically acceptable targets for religious intolerance, harassment, and ridicule. We should recognize it goes with the territory.

One more thought

Considering the tasteless HBO show we discussed earlier - one thing Hollywood has completely forgotten is that stories can be told by what is not shown; not just by what is. An actor can go into a bedroom (or bathroom, or other private setting) and our imagination can take over, but of course now they think we are too stupid and have to be shown EVERYTHING. In trying to portray a sacred event which is something done behind closed doors, this message could also be conveyed without our directly viewing it. They seem to have lost their ability to use artistic subtlety. There's a reason I don't watch the trash that is being produced now and this is one of the reasons. Classic silver screen was able to paint a beautiful love story with no more than a kiss - and then that kiss really meant something!

Honoring what others hold sacred

I guess each individual must come to terms with his or her own behavior on such matters as respect and reverence. A few writers have summed up the latest affront to our religion's right to the sacred. Campbell At least we know that there are others who still have integrity and morals. You just won't find much of that in the media if it will raise ratings through shock value. Never mind that they continue to confuse the LDS Church with the Fundamentalist off-shoots. Every religion I know of has break away sects and these are recognized as different from the original. The Temples which now number about 129 are not used by the fundamentalists. The producers of "Big Love" know that and yet they continue to confuse viewers. Apparently their only concern was with accuracy of portrayal with no regard to respect and reverence of the sacred. Even non-believers who do not fear their own eternal consequences for their choices should have the dignity to avoid offending others in this way. The show is faltering and facing cancellation. I guess they'll do anything in a desperate attempt to raise the numbers and get attention.

Last week when I attended the Draper Temple open house, I was affronted by the usual "anti-Mormon" picketers at the entrance. Have they no values? Somehow I can't envision members of our faith picketing at the open house of a new Greek Orthodox, Jewish, Presbyterian, Baptist or any other church. We don't feel the need to desecrate their event in such a way, calling it free speech. We approach conference time again and once more, conference-attenders will have to wade through the rude and disrespectful protesters just to get to their meetings. Most try to quietly ignore it but of course it affronts the spirit, and sometimes, as with a previous case of the public abuse of sacred garments, it does bring out the anger in those targeted. Sacred clothing is not unique to our religion and it should be treated with respect by others, just as one should a Muslim woman's hijab, which has deeper religious meaning and significance than just a head covering. I don't believe in that but I reverence her right to believe it and would never consider desecrating it or try to prove some kind of point with it. Many other symbols are typical in religions and they should all receive respect and only be used as the particular religion deems proper. What moral decay is prevalent here!

Terrance D. Olson (a professor in the School of Family Life at BYU and associate director of the World Family Policy Center) wrote an article in Meridian addressing the issue of not respecting what others hold sacred. He believes it speaks to our own values. If we hold something sacred, we should respect whatever another holds sacred as well. Seems like basic Christian beliefs - kind of "do unto others" stuff. Here is a bit of what he wrote:

"It is possible to have sacred beliefs and yet demean other's convictions. To do so, however, means betraying our own beliefs of how to behave, perverting the attitudes we hold, or in other ways dishonoring our own spiritual commitments. Whether our betrayal takes the form of moral superiority, spiritual arrogance, interpersonal ridicule, or being offended at others' devoutness, all are signs of more than not granting others their sacred feelings. They reveal we have turned against our own.

...When nothing is sacred, everything is fair game in conflicts of ideas, attitudes, or behaviors. If something is sacred, then some ground rules of harmonious interaction are possible.

... if tolerance and compassion were intertwined in acknowledging what others find sacred, new solutions would be possible. A simple example is the Seventh Day Adventist community where the mail is on Sunday (but not on Saturday). It costs nothing in such a circumstance to honor what the community finds sacred. But my major focus here is about how we individually, by the way we honor the sacred, treat others, change or improve ourselves, and solve relationship problems.

I am convinced that a major reason any individual is empathic toward those from other cultures is because they themselves hold some things sacred and could therefore grant the sacred reverenced by others."

From LDS Church statement: "Certainly one of the hallmarks of a civilized society is that we grant others the opportunity to reverence their beliefs. If a group or individual holds something as sacred, an advanced and compassionate society gives them that privilege and does not seek to desecrate it."